tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5945802533317836555.post5867352883719461270..comments2024-02-10T20:37:45.771-08:00Comments on GARY DOBBS AT THE TAINTED ARCHIVE: A man's gotta' do what a man's gotta' do...Gary Dobbs/Jack Martinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10935686140719743351noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5945802533317836555.post-73475996835826733822011-06-10T04:55:47.567-07:002011-06-10T04:55:47.567-07:00Thanks Chris. I'm looking forward to the debat...Thanks Chris. I'm looking forward to the debate - I just want to discuss the subject without fear of offending anyone. And Ben is, I suspect, more of an expert on the actual Indian struggles than am I, but I really do want to defend the western as a genre against the charge of racism - though obviously there are some western which are racist. But I certainly wouldn't class The Searchers among them.<br /><br />Let the debate begin - we should be able to schedule this sometime mid July and can then get the podcast out there towards the end of the month. This will be a good and informative show - I can feel it.Gary Dobbs/Jack Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10935686140719743351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5945802533317836555.post-68872130056053084432011-06-10T04:44:03.683-07:002011-06-10T04:44:03.683-07:00No offense taken, Gary. I was just making somethin...No offense taken, Gary. I was just making something of a counter point. I think the fact you guys are going to debate is fantastic. Looking forward to it!Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10070278104646895235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5945802533317836555.post-73398462922411066692011-06-10T04:23:26.130-07:002011-06-10T04:23:26.130-07:00To put my position clear - the period of history w...To put my position clear - the period of history we are dealing with is a dark one for America and yes - there was a policy of genocide. But my points were that the movie, The Searchers is not racist. The Ethan Edwards character is but the film is not. And yes there were many injustices and often great violence done to the Indians by the Whites. That is beyond doubt. I have studied many Indian cultures and I admire them greatly and am interested in a lot of their wisdom. But there were atrocities committed by the Indians against the whites - maybe their treatment justifies this, and often it did, but it is not as clear cut as one side being bad and the other good.<br /><br />Chris -I do hope my article didn't offend you. I have the greatest respect for you and your heritage, and am proud to have you as an Archive reader. And I was not defending the Whites against the Indians, nor would I defend the Nazis - Gee, I'm not that way inclined, but the point I was trying to make is that it wasn't all clear cut, and just as not all Germans were Nazis, then not all whites were guilty of wrong against the Indians. However the Indians did suffer from the settlement of America, many of their lands were stolen, countless numbers of them were murdered in cold blood. It was a shameful time and remains a black spot on US history.<br /><br />However if I offended you than I apologise, because my comments were not meant to offend. And my statement about atrocities by both sides, was in no way intended to defend the whites against what was done to the Indians, the true native population, the people who belonged to the land by birth. I was just trying to point out that there are shades of grey, which is why I defended James Reasoner's story in the first place.Gary Dobbs/Jack Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10935686140719743351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5945802533317836555.post-64600101108185246542011-06-09T18:15:15.047-07:002011-06-09T18:15:15.047-07:00I've read the story. I'd say three things....I've read the story. I'd say three things.<br /><br />1. James Reasoner is in no way a racist. He's one of my favorite writers, one of the best at what he does, and has been very, very kind in limited communication with me.<br /><br />2. That said, I don't think this particular story is his best work (the novel of his I'm reading right now, <i>Under Outlaw Flags</i>, just might be his best, though!). I see where the reviewer, Ben Whitmer, is coming from, and can see how he arrived at the conclusion he came to. But I also think it's harder to read the review and NOT hear Ben calling James a racist than it is to think opposite. Ben says that wasn't his intention, and I believe him.<br /><br />3. I think the discussion moved away from the actual story, and I'm not responding to the story in my comment here to Gary. To me, as an American Indian, Gary's comment is akin to someone defending Nazi Germany by saying "there were atrocities committed by both the Nazis and the Jews."<br /><br />I'm all for people hitting these issues in fiction. I think it's a great way to get it out there and talked about. But a line like that is, to me, an irresponsible way to justify it.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10070278104646895235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5945802533317836555.post-89953319583354122632011-06-09T18:00:45.503-07:002011-06-09T18:00:45.503-07:00Here is the big question that I have for anyone wh...Here is the big question that I have for anyone who is calling this author's work racist is really being all that fair. The Indian Hater Archetype is one based in history. THat being said, should this character be ignored by historical fiction? <br /><br />I have not read the actual story, So I cannot comment with any kind of authority, but my knee jerk reaction is that a conclusion has been jumped to.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5945802533317836555.post-84098196235834634022011-06-09T17:32:25.427-07:002011-06-09T17:32:25.427-07:00Gary, I'm a fan of your work, but this:
there...Gary, I'm a fan of your work, but this:<br /><br /><i>there are (were) atrocities committed by both the whites and the Indians.</i><br /><br />We are talking about pure, unadulterated genocide on the American Indian people. In the face of eradication, I can't imagine anything being an atrocity. And I'm as nonviolent as they come.<br /><br />Personally, I find almost all of those old westerns to be pretty damn racist, right down to casting whites for Indian roles. That's about as racist as you can get. And John Wayne was the worst. I understand they are a product of their time, but that doesn't make them any less racist.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10070278104646895235noreply@blogger.com